Derek: 00:28

Welcome back to the Fourth Wave Podcast. It's that time in our series again where we get to discuss some of the resources that have formed and shaped my views on propaganda in regard to this section, medical propaganda, and give you some recommendations for follow-up. So let's go ahead and jump right in. When we look at medical propaganda, it really could take a lot of different forms in terms of how you approach the topic. For me personally, I thought that delving first into the history, the more distant history, would be a lot better because it's a whole lot easier to see into the distant past than it is into the present.

Derek: 01:11

If you look at the present, any issue that you take a look at is going to be kind of murkier because it's filled with more emotion, because it directly impacts you, because you know people who believe different things. It's going to be harder for you to come at things objectively. So looking to the past, a hundred years, two hundred years or more, that's going to be more helpful in helping you to be objective when you look at things. And as you find patterns and instances and situations in the past that you're able to see objectively, then as you get into the present and you already understand the themes and the kind of tells that you're looking for in regard to conspiracies and propaganda, it's gonna be a whole lot easier to see. If you're taking this approach, hands down, the absolute best resource that you can get, at least that as far as I found, was entitled Medical Apartheid.

Derek: 02:09

The book was phenomenal and in fact, a bunch of the other resources that that I read and some of which I quote the next one that we'll get to actually, I pulled from the reference from Medical Apartheid. She just gives you so many different avenues to pursue in regard to atrocities that have have been done through history by lots of different groups, know, more more individuals but also governmental groups, especially back in the, you know, 30s, 40s, 50s. So it's a really, really good book that gives you tons and tons and tons of examples, and then it also gives you a lot of references that you can follow-up more. So I strongly recommend Medical Apartheid. If you read one book, hands down, that is the book that I would read.

Derek: 02:55

The next book, Acres of Skin, is also one that was interesting. Maybe it's a little bit too recent, it's not the distant past, but I think it's right there at the cusp where we're able to recognize that, okay, that was, like, we can view that somewhat objectively. But Acres of Skin is about Holmesburg Prison and specifically, but the prison system in general, and how doctors were and pharmaceutical companies and the government were all basically using prisoners as test subjects. And I like the book because it's a good bridge between medical apartheid and modern conspiracy and propaganda because what you see there is is a whole lot murkier. I mean, I don't think it's murky, but you can understand how people justify, right?

Derek: 03:45

It brings in this benevolence aspect that we talk about in regard to medicine, right? The medical community, the government, we're doing this for the public's own good, right? We're doing this for prisoners' good because what they do is they would get prisoners to sign off on waivers and all kinds of other stuff and they would pay them. They do lots of different things where you're like, well, you know, the prisoners signed off, they knew what they were getting into, well, they got paid for it. But at the same time, when you the author does a good job of kind of setting up their situation and saying, Okay, yes, sure, they had a choice to some extent, but they weren't really informed, like they weren't totally informed of all of the things that could happen.

Derek: 04:27

They weren't really informed of their rights, especially if you consider that a bunch of these prisoners are illiterate, like are they really getting explained everything to them? No. One of the prisoners that the guy quotes talks about how he's like, Look, when when you're in the prison, your head's on a swivel when you're out in the yard. He's like, if they're gonna give me, like, $2 and some candy or, like, extra rations at lunch and I get to go sit in a in a safe place for two hours, okay. I'm I'm gonna take them up on that offer, I don't really care what happens to me because it's safe.

Derek: 05:09

So when you think about it that way, you've essentially got a hostage population who is in such terrible conditions that of course the medical procedures that they're gonna undergo, that they're not fully informed of, seem like good things. Yes, they have a choice, but how much of a choice is it really when they don't have other options or when the other options are so unpalatable? This is a great it's a fantastic book because it does a number of things. So even though it's more recent, I think most people would say that what people did to the prisoners isn't great. The author ties it into to World War II and the Nazis because the Nazis actually referenced like some of the work that The US was doing in the prison systems and they say, Well, you guys were doing this stuff too to hostage populations.

Derek: 06:03

And he brings that aspect into it like, We're going against the Nuremberg standards here. We're doing this post World War II. We're going against those standards that we accused the Nazis of and found them guilty for. He gets into a whole host of other things like the government and pharmaceutical companies, and so you start to get big players involved there and you see how those play into the system. It's just an overall good book that's going to get you to think on this topic.

Derek: 06:38

Another good book, course, would be Imbeciles, which we covered in our episode on Eugenics. And then one that I really liked, which isn't really specifically about medical conspiracies and propaganda and such, but it kind of shows you how thinking, even in the scientific realm, can get really screwed up, is a book entitled Pandora's Lab. What I like about that is I think because we deify scientists today, you know, well the science says this, we can kind of think that, oh well, then that must be true. And Pandora's lab gets into a number of different scientists as individuals in particular who throughout time have kind of had really messed up thinking even though they were brilliant, a lot of them were Nobel Prize winners but they ended up going wayward and and having some crazy thinking or immoral thinking or both at some point. And so you can kinda see the thought processes and how some individuals in the scientific community kinda go wayward.

Derek: 07:44

So that's a great book more to look at thought processes and things and to help you be critical of the scientific community. Once you're done with those more historical books, you can get into more controversial topics. So the big one, of course, would be vaccines. Now, I read The Big Lie and The Doctor Who Fooled the World, which are both anti they're against the guy, I forget his name at the moment, but the guy who said that there's a link between autism and vaccines. And it's important to note that I don't think either of those authors were saying that vaccines can't have negative side effects, but if they do, or if anybody would say that, then I would definitely say that's not true.

Derek: 08:29

Like, 100% vaccines do have a danger element to them. I think that's minuscule and it pales in comparison to, you know, to the diseases that they're fighting, but at least for this specific instance, right, talking about the doctor's work who linked autism to vaccines, his work was fraudulent, it seems. So you can take a look at those two books, but as far as reading for his case, I didn't really find any good accessible books for his case, but I did read a bunch of articles from people who were kind of defending him and stuff. So, that's a good topic to get into, but it's one that's more controversial and not as settled yet. You're gonna get a whole lot more emotion involved in that if you're having that discussion with people, and in my opinion it's just not worth it at this point if you're studying propaganda and you want to understand the process and everything that goes into it.

Derek: 09:28

It's worth avoiding that. Now it's good to eventually get to that because it is a really important topic. Whether or not you get the vaccine can have an impact on yourself, your family, and other people. So, yeah, I'll just leave it there. In regard to medical propaganda, we also got into the false prophet episode which talked about how Christians, in particular conservative Christians, handled the gay movement and homosexuality and the AIDS crisis.

Derek: 10:01

So there are a lot of books that I read on that and it was one of the most fascinating things that I've I've researched just because, probably because, I knew so little about the movement and history of of gays in The US. So it was it was a really big learning experience for me and good. So I read The Pink Triangle, which showed, you know, if you're going down the theme of Eugenics and the Buck v. Bell case, the pink triangle kind of shows a sort of a Eugenics movement in Germany, specifically related to homosexuals at the time. So the pink triangle was just like the Jews wore a Star of David, they made gay people wear a pink triangle.

Derek: 10:48

And so it's just a book that kind of gets into that and it's really interesting. Patient Zero is also really good because it kind of gives you a glimpse at the AIDS pandemic, probably like '15 oh no, no, guess the guy wrote it in like '20 maybe it was 2018 or 2010. Whenever he wrote it, it was more recent, but it was about the so he has ability to kind of see in retrospect what transpired, but he talks about this guy named they called Patient Zero, who was supposedly the gay man who basically brought brought AIDS and spread it to everybody. And so this guy goes into that individual's life, he kind of defends him a bit and just says he was kind of a scapegoat for everybody and it propaganda and a lot of stuff that was really convenient for society at large to kind of blame this one guy and to make it a simple narrative of AIDS when it was a whole lot more complex than that. So Patient Zero was a good look at the AIDS pandemic as well as getting to see propaganda in action.

Derek: 11:57

And then there's the Lavender Scare, which brings the government into things, right? That was homosexuality and how it was treated by the government. So we know the McCarthy era, right? McCarthyism and the Red Scare and all that stuff where we're trying to get rid of communists and government. But there's actually a lavender scare that happened simultaneously where for some reason gays and communists, I guess if you were gay, like they said you're automatically communist and they tried to excuse it by saying, Well, you're a security threat and all kinds of stuff, but there was a big ousting of gay people from government and other businesses too.

Derek: 12:41

And that was known as the Lavender Scare. There are a number of other good books. From a conservative Christian perspective, Still Time to Care was really good. I enjoyed Out Love, Indecent Advances, and Stonewall. Those are all good books that give you a picture of the gay community and people's responses to them, and some of those include some propaganda and conspiracy in them as well, but the books that I've referenced already are probably the best if you're gonna focus on conspiratorial or propagandistic aspects.

Derek: 13:17

So as far as movies go, if you wanna kinda see this from Hollywood or through documentaries or things and kind of get a broader perspective and see how it's depicted, you could check out something like the Dallas Buyers Club, which deals with AIDS medicine not being super accessible to people in The United States and going across the border to get it. I saw that a while ago, so I actually didn't watch it recently. I would love to watch it again and kind of with this new perspective that I have, but it was I remember it being interesting. It was definitely different and it was sad. Then there's the movie about Freddie Mercury.

Derek: 13:56

I think it's called Bohemian Rhapsody. I would like to see that, but I haven't seen that. There's a documentary called Patient Zero, and then there's a documentary called How to Survive the Plague about AIDS. As far as what I'd like to get to, I'd really like to get to a book called After the Wrath of God, talks about the Christian response in particular to the AIDS crisis, I believe. Other than that, I can't say that I did a ton of research on the medical community.

Derek: 14:30

I listed most of what I've read because there were some other books that I did read or listen to, and for whatever reason, when you get to the medical and science stuff, it seemed like there were some kooky things out there. And I'm sure when you get to the government, there are really kooky things that are out there too. But for some reason, I didn't I just didn't come across all that much interesting stuff about medicine and science. But I I know that there must be a whole lot more out there talking about, you know, who funds research studies and how conclusions are are come to by scientists and and things. There's gotta be better stuff out there, but for for what we were going for, looking back in history and and seeing some pretty clear cases, I think we did a we did an adequate job here, and I think you can you can move on for yourself from this point.

Derek: 15:28

There were a few other conspiracies that I came across not in book form though, and I'll put them, some links in the notes here, and I'll just quickly reference those because some of them are really interesting. So for instance, you know, vaccines, right? The CIA actually used vaccines in Pakistan, I think it was. Right? So how did they figure out where Osama bin Laden was?

Derek: 15:56

Well, they kind of narrowed it down and they're like, I think he's here, but we don't know if he's actually here. And so they ran a vaccine campaign in Pakistan, I think, and when somebody who they thought was one of his relatives, when they came into town, they basically had this vaccine campaign going on, which I guess did give a legitimate vaccine, but at the same time, they used it to get this individual's DNA, and then they're like, yep, that's a match. It's a relative, a close relative of Osama bin Laden, and then they knew that that they were onto him. Of course, there were a lot of people in that community who thought that that crossed some moral line. They're like, you shouldn't you shouldn't do that because it's gonna give a stigma about vaccines and about the medical community, just like you're not really supposed to use journalists things like that.

Derek: 16:47

Like, there's some no no's in espionage and and stuff, but they do it anyway. Right? As long as you don't get get caught, it's okay. And even when you do, it's okay anyway too. So that, of course, shed some doubts on things like, okay, well, when they're they're, asking us to go get COVID vaccines, what a really convenient way to get our DNA, right?

Derek: 17:11

And so it really blurs the line between what is the government willing and able to do in regard to using medicine for nefarious purposes. Sticking with the theme of vaccines, you know, there's also a story with the polio vaccine and how it had a carcinogenic element in it up all the way until like 1963. And then supposedly supposedly got taken out, but then it really didn't. There were some strains or some vaccines that still had it in it. So we know that vaccines have been used for purposes other than the stated purposes, and we know that they can be harmful to some people.

Derek: 17:56

The question is, where are those lines? Where is the government using it? Where is the government not using it for for other purposes? Where where is the truth about how harmful things are? It it kind of blurs the lines, so there are some things that you can look into.

Derek: 18:16

There's also an article I linked that talks about how certain Alzheimer's research has been fabricated, and that's really, really significant if that pans out to be false. If the Alzheimer's research was fabricated, I mean, would be insane because researchers have been following these findings that they thought were true and that leads you down a particular path, and if you're pursuing cure for a specific thing and that thing doesn't end up being the problem, you've just wasted decades of funding and research and resources. So that's pretty significant. Then of course, there's Theranos, my cousin called it, and I I assume he would know more than I do, but I guess in my head, I'm thinking Marvel Cinematic Universe, Theranos sounds more like what what I would have said. But Theranos, right, they're this company that you can go back and listen to my discussion with my cousin about propaganda in the real world in regard to medicine.

Derek: 19:27

But they're a company that has had a lot of propaganda conspiracy going around in regard to what they did, and we know for sure that they were doing some shady things. There's a whole lot more that you can research. Again, I want to recommend that Medical Apartheid book. That is fantastic. You should definitely go check that out.

Derek: 19:50

There's one more thing I do want to mention, by the way. There are a lot of references, it seems like, especially in this section on medical propaganda where I have a lot of references to things. In the episode, the false prophet episode, there are a lot of biblical quotes and allusions and other references that you hopefully got. But in the one on the Black Stork, in the one on True Conspiracies where we talked about Eugenics, there's one reference that I do wanna pull out as and highlight. Like normally, you either get it or you don't, and that's okay if you you do, it's okay if you don't.

Derek: 20:29

But there's one that I I do want you to get. So from the Black Stork episode, there is a place where I I say, you know, God exists and He is American. That reference is to something that's said in the movie, The Watchman. Now, don't necessarily recommend that you go out and watch the movie because there are, you know, there's violence and and sexuality in there that you would probably not want. But as far as the the story goes, I love it.

Derek: 21:02

It's it's a dark movie because it it's like an anti hero movie. The protagonists are kind of actually the antagonists. I'll ruin the movie for you here because I feel like I have to kinda set it up. So you've got a whole bunch of these superheroes, right? And they are they are protecting the world from bad people, But their lives are kind of messed up themselves.

Derek: 21:30

Like, they're they're not the greatest of people. Well, this one superhero, this this really smart guy, he he ends up devising this plan to bomb parts of the world, like, with nuclear weapons and blame it on this super super strong superhero who's like almost like a god. I mean, he he can like mess with space and I think time too. He he can just like, I mean, destroy anything. Anyway, this really smart dude, the smart anti hero superhero guy, he he recognizes, right, because this isn't like a parallel cold war era, right, like seventies, he recognizes that the world is going to nuke each other.

Derek: 22:20

Like, knows it somehow. And so he's like, the only way that I can save this is if we create a common enemy. And so the common enemy that he creates is this he he he makes it look like there's nuclear attack and he blames it on this like god like superhero, and everybody blames him. And in the end, the superheroes realize that even though this this, you know, this smart superhero who ends up nuking millions of people and killing them, he actually ends up saving the whole world, billions of people, by killing a lot of people and blaming it on this one guy and giving them all a common enemy. And so the the movie ends where this one guy, this one superhero, he's trying to reveal this truth, whereas all the other superheroes don't let him do that and end up kind of keeping it a secret in order to save the world.

Derek: 23:17

Well, so there's there's a lot that goes on there in regard to who's good, who's bad, consequentialist, morality, lots of lots of conundrums, moral conundrums, and and all kinds of philosophical things there. But the one part of the movie where the the blue guy kind of gets his powers, the the, like, godlike hero gets his powers, everybody's like when when they realize that there's this super strong being, they're like, oh, no. Like, what is this? And when they find out that who he is and that he's an American, they say, I think in the comics, they say like, the Superman exists and he is ours. But I think in the movie that they say, God exists and he is American or something like that because he is an American guy.

Derek: 24:06

And so that's that's why I reference that. If you go back and listen to The Black Stork, it's a reference to to Watchmen. And what I meant to convey in that in that phrase where I inserted it into the episode is that, you know, there's this immense power that that The United States has had, that the science scientific community, the medical community has had when we looked at the Eugenics Program and when when we looked at the courts and how they they handled things. And that power is a relief and it's justified when it helps your group, right? When it hurts a different group, but when it helps your group.

Derek: 24:49

So we're okay with things if it doesn't impact us negatively, and if it helps us. It's, self interest disguised as benevolence. Oh, you know, this God that can destroy the world? It's okay. He's ours.

Derek: 25:06

So that's what I was getting at there. It it was a short of a short of a short hand way to kind of put all of those concepts into that that one phrase at that point in the episode. So if you know Watchmen or if you ever watch it, go back, you can listen to that that episode that I I reference it in, and maybe you'll get something a little bit more out of it. Anyway, I think that kind of does it for now for this episode. Hopefully, you've got some tools to run with here and yeah, enjoy.

Derek: 25:42

That's all for now. So peace and because I'm a pacifist, when I say it, I mean it. This podcast is a part of the Kingdom Outpost Network. Please check out the links below to find other great podcasts and content related to non violence and Kingdom Living.