Welcome back to the Fourth Wave podcast. Today, I want to expound, broaden our discussion on Romans 13. Because when I talked about Romans 13, I really only talked about Romans 13, and I didn't talk about maybe the broader New Testament trend. And I mean, for those who have never read Romans 13 in context, in the broader context, the idea that that we're talking about in this podcast, in this season, can be rather foreign. And that foreignness, I think a lot of times is heightened by our culture because our culture emphasizes the importance of tapping into the power of government, particularly through politics.

So the idea that we're throwing off government, it seems absurd, especially just looking at Romans thirteen, one through seven at least. And while I think it is clear that Christ came to establish His political enterprise, the big k kingdom to which we are to have our our primary allegiance, most just don't see it, and I think because they do zoom in on Romans thirteen one through seven rather than taking a broader look. Most feel as though, at least in the democratic West, politics and religion don't often have competing allegiances. Fortunately, I I think I can point to other passages in the New Testament that will will strengthen our perspective on Romans 13. So first, I wanna talk about First Corinthians six one through six.

And let's just go ahead and and read that here, and I'm gonna emphasize some of the parts here to to kinda help you pull out what I'm what I'm looking at. Quote, if any of you has a dispute with another, do you dare to take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the Lord's people? Or do you not know that the Lord's people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? Do you not know that we will judge angels?

How much more the things of this life? Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, do you ask for a ruling from those whose way of life is scorned in the church? I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there's nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers, but instead one brother takes another to court, and this, in front of unbelievers, end quote. Alright, so Paul in this section is essentially saying, guys, don't go into courts.

Like, you just, you don't do it. Why? Because you're going before the ungodly, right, in front of those whose way of life is scorned in the church, in front of unbelievers. And so that's three times he's like, hey, we don't have anything in common with them. Right?

But instead, twice he says, you take it before the Lord's people. And then he says, we will judge. So he he clearly, at least the judicial system, he pits in opposition to the church and the people of God. Now, people a lot of times will try to point out that Paul is really dealing with more trivial cases here in First Corinthians. He's dealing with what seems to be lawsuits.

Now, how then does does this compare to Romans 13, where we're talking about weighty matters, like bearing the sword? Because if believers are being told by Paul that the very government which is bearing the sword against them should be given taxes and respect, since God is sovereign over that authority, then certainly this governmental authority extends down through the whole system, doesn't it? And we've we've seen throughout all of these episodes that legislation is ultimately the sword. So surely Paul didn't mean that God has only given authority to Caesar and not to any governmental extensions like courts, right? The very system that Paul is referencing in first Corinthians six is a part of the government that Paul is referencing in Romans 13.

And how does Paul talk about the system? And beyond a shadow of a doubt, he distances believers from the system. In Paul's eyes, the Church, the Kingdom, the big K Kingdom, is the political affiliation for believers. The government, while it is to be given respect and taxes and whatever else it's it's due, if it's due those things, so long as it doesn't conflict with the big K Kingdom's affiliation, right, that stuff's for non believers. While Romans 13 doesn't have the explicit language of distancing that we find in one Corinthians six, you know, where Paul says, the unbelievers, we do see a similar sort of thing because we see the language shift from Romans 12, which is like, we, you, us, the church language, to in Romans thirteen:one through seven, they, them, right, rulers, and then switching back to we, us in Romans thirteen:eight and following.

So first Corinthians six is is I think it's very similar in the sense that it's talking about the government, it's talking about the sword arm of the government or the part of the government that essentially decides to use the sword, invoke the sword, and we see these the distancing language, very similar to Romans 13. Now, another retort that somebody might have here is that Paul is simply being descriptive in first Corinthians six, and he's not being prescriptive. He's really just identifying that the current governmental system is filled with unbelievers, which only makes sense since Christianity was very new. But this lack of believers in the government at the time of Paul doesn't mean that he didn't think Christians should enter coercive governmental positions. But if you wanna argue that way, it ignores the first three centuries of early church understanding on the issue anyway.

So maybe Paul wasn't at a position where Christianity was larger, but certainly, they were by the mid two hundreds where Christianity was at least growing and more influential. Now, when you have the great majority of voices during that time telling soldiers to quit or to do no violence, elders telling magistrates to do no violence, an ecumenical council chastening a return to the army, all kinds of those things. It helps to show that Paul's words here aren't simply descriptive. Paul's distinction of Christ's political kingdom and the world's kingdoms, it makes sense if Christ established His big K kingdom when He walked the Earth. Christ's kingdom isn't some ethereal, esoteric, future oriented thing.

Sure, the kingdom hasn't fully come yet, we can all acknowledge that, but Christ is making his enemies his footstool as we speak. But he's doing so through the politic that he established in his kingdom, the church. We are Christ's and we cannot serve two masters. Now, if there were any doubts as to the reading of Paul's writings, Peter seems to clarify things even further by writing the book of first Peter, which focuses on the issues of authorities, submission, suffering, and love. And it's an invaluable book to go through when trying to discern what the Bible says about these aspects of the Christian life.

Unfortunately, most tend to just cherry pick the notion of submitting to authority in first Peter two without first looking at the context, and without understanding that submission is different than obedience. This is why Peter and Paul can ask wives to submit to husbands, even unbelievers, and slaves to submit to masters, and that's why Christians are asked to submit to a government that is unjust. In context, first Peter continually tells us that we are subjects and servants of God first. We are exiles and strangers here. But while we serve God wholeheartedly and without compromise, we can acknowledge God's sovereignty over authorities and give them honor and respect.

And this is true even when authorities and institutions are unjust, like a persecuting government, an unbelieving husband, or a master of slaves. This is true whether the persecution is for religious reasons or not. Apart from suffering from doing evil, our suffering here is in the hands of God. Suffering without doing evil, without retaliating, and with a trust in God's ultimate justice is what Jesus did Himself, and it's what we are called to do as we walk in His steps. Now, don't wanna tear apart the whole book of first Peter, so what I'm gonna do is I'm I'm just gonna kind of pick out some of the themes that that I got going through this, and I think you should kind of look at this for yourself.

But I'm gonna I'm gonna pull out some highlights here. Okay. First, political allegiance and authorities. First Peter distinguishes sharply between God's kingdom and humanity's kingdom. It even uses political language to distinguish the two, as do the Gospels.

In one one, we are strangers in this world. One seventeen, live as strangers. Two eleven, we are aliens and strangers of the world. Two thirteen through 15, submit to the world's authority so we can remain blameless and not tarnish Christ. Two sixteen through 17, give honor to kings but we are to serve and fear God.

Two five, we are being built spiritually. Two nine, we are a holy nation. Three fifteen, Christ is our Lord. And five three, the church, our kingdom institution, shouldn't be coercive and Lord power over others. I mean, talk about a huge dichotomy between church and secular government, church and world.

Peter just lays it out hard. And what about suffering? Well, suffering in first Peter is called for because Christ suffered, and just as He suffered to heal, we see in two twenty four, so our suffering can heal. And Peter shows us this in three one through two and four eight. God is in control of suffering.

He doesn't want us to suffer for doing the wrong thing, but even if we do suffer when not doing the wrong thing, we can take joy in knowing that God is sovereign and will bring justice. So we see these ideas in one:eight, trials result in rewards on Christ's return. One eleven, prophets said that Christ would suffer. One nineteen, we are redeemed through blood. Two twenty one through 22, submit to suffering because Jesus did and we follow in His footsteps.

Two eighteen through 20, submit to suffering from unjust authorities, even for non religious reasons, because of God. Three one through two, one through two, submit even to unjust authority so that non believers might believe. Two twelve, live blameless for the sake of the pagans. Three fourteen, you're blessed if you suffer, for, or while doing right. Four one, take on suffering because Jesus suffered.

Four nineteen, those who suffer are in God's control. So all throughout the idea of suffering is that it is a witness we saw through to the non religious and to the pagans. It's something that Jesus did and it's something that we're therefore called to do, and we're called to believe in God's sovereignty through that. So suffering is a huge theme and a willingness to suffer under even the authorities. Judgment is another common theme in Peter.

Judgment in First Peter is viewed as a future event, but an event that is determined by what occurs now. Believers who endure suffering are, and are obedient to God, while experiencing pain and some sense of judgment now, one Peter four seventeen, are being purified. Their actions also influence the lives of others, especially unbelievers. And those unbelievers who don't endure sufferings on behalf of God and in the footsteps of Christ Jesus, don't escape judgment and purification, however. Their judgment is future oriented and God will exact that judgment perfectly.

It is not for the believers to take into their own hands here and now. So, first Peter one nine, trials and suffering will perfect our salvation. One twenty two, we are purified through obedience to pure love. Four five, pagans will be judged by God. Five six, God will lift the humble up in due time.

Five ten, Christ will restore with His power. So ultimately, though in this life we may suffer, we see that God's restoration will come to us and His judgment will come on those who aren't willing to suffer now, those who don't follow God in this life. We can also see the concept of resistance and defense in first Peter. Coercive force is viewed in a bad light, first Peter five three, particularly when it's done by the church, and we are told not to repay evil with evil. The only time resistance and force are used for the Christian here is where we are told to resist the devil, a spiritual battle rather than a physical one.

Time and time again, the physical is downplayed, not in the Gnostic sense as if the physical is a bad thing, but in the sense that our battle is not with fresh flesh and blood. Christ's kingdom is not of this world, and violence in this world is not to be a part of Christ's work here. We see in one five that we are shielded by God. One thirteen, prepare our minds for action. Two eleven, war is being waged on our souls.

Two twenty three, there's no retaliation to injustice, but we are to leave justice to God's judgment. Three six, we are to do what is right without fear of unjust authorities. Three nine, don't repay evil with evil. Three twenty two, God controls all authorities. Five nine, cast our cares on God and resist the devil.

So extreme faith in God, a focus on resisting for spiritual battle and trusting that God has ultimate control over authorities. I saved resistance and defense for last because there is a really awesome part of this particular point. In in first Peter three ten through 12, we find Psalm 34 quoted. Undoubtedly, those who heard Peter's words knew what Psalm, like they could finish what that Psalm was. They probably knew it very well, and and would have been finishing it for Peter when he referenced it.

He was alluding to something bigger. And when you look at it, or when you hear it, I want you to notice the language. It it's all about God's people taking refuge in God. God does all the fighting, and all the protecting, and all the justifying in this passage. It is about complete trust and dependence on God for justice through a resting in Him by taking on the means of Christ, suffering love.

God defeats evil and He uses the wicked to slay the wicked. I'm not gonna read the whole the whole passage, but I will I will post it below and you can also look at it in various translations if you just search it. I specifically wanna read the very last section, verses 19 through 22 here. The righteous person may have many troubles, but the Lord delivers him from them all. He protects all his bones.

Not one of them will be broken. Evil will slay the wicked. The foes of the righteous will be condemned. The Lord will rescue His servants. No one who takes refuge in Him will be condemned.

Obviously, there, right, there is suffering, God protects him, who trusts in Him ultimately, the Lord will rescue His servants, and then, the part that that, you know, all of this is amazing about trusting in God and and all that, but evil will slay the wicked. I mean, that just fits in exactly with what we're talking about in in Romans 13, in God using evil. So it it's beautiful, and it hits on, like I said, a lot that we've talked about in this series, but also in our nonviolent series. If you listen to or read Greg Boyd or any of the Bible Project stuff, you're gonna be familiar with their take that most of the violence in the Bible is is really God's withdrawing of protection, His allowance of natural forces, or His allowance of evil to run loose and to judge, right? Sin is its own condemnation, it that Psalm where, you know, somebody digs a pit for evil and then falls into it, that's like sin.

You dig a pit and you fall into your own pit, that's sin. We we could see that with our our favorite example is, of course, Isaiah 10, where Assyria judges Israel but that's not their intent, and then judgment comes on them, right? But we could also point to Joseph's brothers, the crucifixion of Jesus, Babylon, and a host of other events where the evil was permitted to do evil for a time, yet then God brought that good, He brought good about through that, and ultimately judgment on the people who did evil. So first Peter clarifies even further what we find in Romans 13. A reading of Romans that views the authorities who bear the sword as distinct from the church is not anomalous at all.

And if first Corinthians six and first Peter didn't make that clear enough, we have the first three centuries of church history as well as the Old Testament with the theme of governments being terrible things, and God wielding those evils against themselves, against other evils of nations. God expects us to make Him the King, and to look to Him as our Savior and Deliverer, and to trust in Him, and to wait, and to be willing to suffer in the meantime. Alternative kings are usurpers. However, God will ultimately use even those who are evil to accomplish His purposes, bringing good out of evil, showing that God is the true king and sovereign even when Caesar and his subjects think that Caesar is really God. I hope delving into this, into a little more scripture has helped to round out what is for most a difficult transition in thinking.

Working through Romans 13 in light of our nationalistic, power hungry, and government as savior culture is hard. But that's what Jesus is all about, bringing, showing and offering us another kingdom and another king. He reigns and he reigns in power now. He always has and always will, so bow the knee now. There is no king but Christ.

That's all for now. So peace and because I'm a pacifist, when I say it, I mean it. This podcast is a part of the Kingdom Outpost Network. Please check out the links below to find other great podcasts and content related to nonviolence and Kingdom Living.