Derek: 00:27

Welcome back to the 4th Way podcast. As this season on abstention is winding down, I've been having some final thoughts that I wanted to share. Now, the episode today isn't one that was originally planned as part of the season, so it might not fit in exactly with the flow of, you know, how I've spaced all of the other episodes out. Nevertheless, I thought it was important enough to discuss, so I wanted to to put it in here before our final episode next week. So I've seen a whole lot of Christians, in the past couple weeks as as things ramp up shaming other people who are considering voting 3rd party in a set especially, those who are considering abstention.

Derek: 01:11

And so I think it's gonna be really beneficial for us to take a look at the the function of voting on a more practical level. And this is, this is a decent place in the season to be able to to put that in as you make your final considerations, but also because we sort of touched on this in our last episode with, with Matthew Milione. And even there, a lot of what we've talked about this season and even in the last episode has been focused on a lot of theology, morality, philosophy. And those are all really great things, they're they're very foundational things, but it's it's often not really where most people are attacked. I mean, it sort of is, because everything boils down to those substances, to those ideas.

Derek: 01:56

Right? Everything has a moral component, philosophical component. If you're a Christian, you believe in in God. Right? There's a theological component to everything.

Derek: 02:07

But a lot of times, the the places that were attacked are are on a much more surface level, and and those things are easier to understand than, than what lies at the foundation. So I think it's really important that I have at least one episode here that maybe addresses some of those more surface level concerns. In this episode, then, I want to counteract that surface level attack, the, you know, the emotional intuitive, whatever you wanna call it. And I wanna make a counter attack here. So here we go.

Derek: 02:43

So a lot of pro voting advocates, they are going to try to guilt others into voting, or they're going to at least strongly encourage it based on a number of perceived functions that they have for what voting does. So they're gonna say, you know, voting is important because it gives you a voice, and, intuitively, it does. Right? I I get to tell somebody my opinion. I mean, not not really hash out my opinion, but, you know, a candidate is a or a party is a packaged set of opinions.

Derek: 03:19

And so I'm going to with my vote, I essentially declare my opinions. Even if I don't agree with everything in a candidate or party, I'm kinda forced into, you know, their set of opinions, and so through them, my opinion is voiced. People are also going to say that voting is important because it makes the will of the people known, and it's it's gonna be really important for us to know the consensus of everybody, because we can make, theoretically, better decisions together, and, it's gonna be important to know the the temperature of the nation and and what people think. Other people are gonna say that voting is important because it helps us, my group, the ones, presumably, who are moral and who know what the truth is, And, especially, coming from, the Evangelical Christian community, this is this is the perception. You know, we need to guide America towards that which is godly.

Derek: 04:21

And, of course, the the other side thinks exactly the same thing. We need to drive society towards the good, and we, our group, whoever that is, we know what the good is and and how to get there. Right? And those are 2 very separate things that oftentimes get conflated that, if you know what the good is, that that means you know how to get there. And I I think I see that a whole lot in the evangelical Christian community where we know what the good is, that's god.

Derek: 04:51

It's kinda nebulous, but, like, we know what the good is, and, therefore, I know how to get there. Right? I know how to get us there. And those are 2 very separate things. But if I think that my group knows the good and I think that my group knows how to get us there, then, yeah, we want to grab a hold of the the levers of governmental power.

Derek: 05:13

And so voting is going to give us the opportunity to drive our society towards that which is good. And then, of course, there are some of the more, emotional sorts of arguments, and guilt tripping sorts of ideas that, you know, voting is important for you to enact because people have fought for your freedom to vote. And, you know, presumably, they didn't fight for your freedom to not vote, they only fought for your freedom to vote, and so you need to make sure that you you do that. Now, hopefully, at this point, you've heard enough to be able to see how weak each of these arguments are and how they are emotionally appealing, but often logically vacuous, either because the premises just aren't true, or because obligation and duty don't logically follow from those things. Okay.

Derek: 06:04

So with with all of, you know, that line of thinking and argumentation, in the back of your mind, let's kind of dig into what voting actually is and and what it accomplishes. Alright. So, first, voting doesn't really get people what it claims that it does. If 50%, and sometimes even more due to the electoral college, and as more people might be starting to vote 3rd party, And considering all the people who abstain and all the people who aren't represented, like kids, prisoners, immigrants, certain immigrants, and and and those sorts of things. Right?

Derek: 06:41

There are a lot of people in the country who are not represented, in the majority. Like, the a minority of people living in the country will direct a majority of people. So more than 50% of people. And if you just wanna take voting people, it's still oftentimes more than the the amount who voted. Like, I was looking at, there were, I think, 5 elections, maybe 6 now in in, US history, where the minority of voters actually lost to the majority.

Derek: 07:14

The the president won the electoral college, but not the popular vote. So there there are times there there's usually a very large percentage of people who go to vote, who go to make their voice known, and who do not get represented by their candidates. Right? That's that's kind of insane. Right?

Derek: 07:36

People are saying, you have a voice when you go out and vote. Well, no. You don't. Right? About 50% of you don't have a voice.

Derek: 07:43

Okay. You made your voice known, but the other candidate won. Your voice no longer matters. It does not count. We don't have a parliamentary system where we have a percentage of, you know, the you get representatives based on a a percentage of votes, and you can have 5, 10 different parties, whatever.

Derek: 08:02

We've got a 2 party system, and so the majority of people will not be represented in their vote. So for most people, voting is an absolutely fruitless endeavor. It ends up being a waste, if we're just looking at the the practical aspect of of that. So then we have to ask ourselves a question, well, why is voting so heavily pushed? Like, what is the what is the surface level function of voting?

Derek: 08:30

What does it actually do? Because this it lacks importance, you know, for for a lot of people. Now Now forget the morality and philosophy stuff. Like, what does voting actually do? Because we know it does something, and here's why.

Derek: 08:47

Like, you can see a lot of the different voting campaigns, that are out there in the United States where, you know, just get out and vote. Get out and vote. You get these stickers, I voted. It doesn't matter which party you voted for. Right?

Derek: 09:00

They say, you need to get out and vote. Why do they want everybody to get out and vote? Right? Why do they want, so many people to get out there and vote? Like, what's so important?

Derek: 09:12

You look at other countries, there are a number of countries. I don't know which ones exactly. I think Australia is one of them, I think some European countries, but, like, voting is actually mandated. I talked with, doctor Keone, I think it was, in, in season 9. I did an interview with him.

Derek: 09:31

I think he wrote the book Jesus in a World of Colliding Empires, and he was from Australia or New Zealand, and he was, he was talking about how there, they have to vote. Even if you write in, you know, like, nobody or or abstain or something, like, you have to go and you have to vote. Why would a country make you do that? You look at dictatorial regimes, like North Korea. They make people vote.

Derek: 09:57

Why do they make people vote? Like, there's obviously something that happens that, that isn't really tied to your opinion, per se, like your opinion as represented on the ballot. Like, there's there's something that nations want to get out of your vote. What is that? Now let's take the optimistic approach here.

Derek: 10:17

Okay. Optimistically, I could say, well, look, you you take a look at, Nicolas Condorcet and his, his jury theorem, and the idea is, if you have a a set of people, a set of voters, people with opinions, who are going to be independent and rational observers, then you're going going to approximate to the mean. I talk about, Condorcet a little bit more in my my episode on Haiti, but, he essentially is just saying that, if you approximate to the mean, then that's gonna be good because none of us is omniscient. Right? So we don't know everything.

Derek: 11:02

And, therefore, if you have a lot of people who are giving their opinions, then if they're rational and independent observers making their their own rational choices based on what they think, then you should approximate to the mean, which is more likely to be correct than, than than even your own personal opinion. And Francis Galton, you know, in his wisdom of crowds, like, he he identifies this too, and I think he's at, like, a a fair or something. And he talks about how you had a bunch of farmers who are essentially guessing the weight of a bull, and the mean, the approximated mean from all of them was extremely close to the actual weight of the bull, even closer than the person who ended up winning, the individual who got the closest. The approximated mean ended up being closer to the actual weight of the bull than than the individual closest number, because you have a lot of independent rational observers who are are putting in their best guesses, and there is wisdom in crowds. So if we're talking about voting, that sounds great.

Derek: 12:10

If if we can get more people to vote, then our mean, our approximated mean should be closer to what is the best. Right? Now, of course, the issue with that is that, Condorcet's, stipulations here are that you have independent and rational observers. There is, Gustave Le Bon, and his famous work, The Crowd, talks about the irrationality of crowds. And so, just as much as a crowd of independent observers can be good, a group of observers who are not independent, who are formed into self interested groups, conglomerates, parties, they're no longer independent, they're told how to think, and there is a whole bunch of group think that gets involved.

Derek: 13:01

And so at that point, there is no longer wisdom, but there's insanity, there's irrationality. So I'd I'd recommend checking out all of those works, Condorcet, Laban. Laban's work is is particularly good, and, Francis Galton. And, you know, through this crowd think and also through through propaganda, which we are very heavily propagandized today, always have been, really, to a certain extent, but, through the various forms of media and just the the saturation of it, we are extremely propagandized today. And, we no longer have, if we ever had, rational and, and independent observers.

Derek: 13:43

And that's why one of the thing you know, democracy generally tends to, decay into something like fascism. Right? Because you have these these crowds that end up forming. Saw a great example of this, going through my neighborhood, lots of signs up, and, there's one sign, very succinct. Right?

Derek: 14:07

And I think it was Hitler, in our episode of Mein Kampf, where we talked about he says, you know, whatever you you say, you know, say it a lot and and, say it, like, keep it short, essentially. So this the sign going through my neighborhood, it said, Kamala Crime. Trump Safety. So that's interesting. Now, you can add on top of all this that even if I was going to assume that we have rational and independent observers who are are not touched by, the self interest of their, their groody groups, their their party think, group think.

Derek: 14:45

If we have people who are untouched or, you know, still able to cut through propaganda, like, let's just assume that's the case, and we are voting for elected officials. There's there's a whole lot of research out there that shows, how well our elected officials create legislation that's in line with their constituents' interests. Right? A lot of times, you vote for a certain individual, and regardless of of the consensus of the constituents, regardless of what's the majority of people think, they're going to legislate and vote a particular way. You see this all over the place, but, you know, maybe the the best example is, if you've ever seen The Big Short, great movie, funny movie, interesting, but it talks about the the 2,008 crisis.

Derek: 15:40

Right? The the financial crisis, and what happened, who was essentially guilty, and how the vast majority of people, bankers, got bailed out. Not individual home homeowners, who owed the bank money. Right? They didn't get bailed out against the banks.

Derek: 15:56

The banks got bailed out by the government, even though most people were not okay with that. That type of thing, war in Iraq, right, the the second war in Iraq, the continuation of the war in Afghanistan, the Vietnam War, just time after time. You see all of these these legislations, legislative acts and, and the things that the government does that don't align with the consensus of the people. And so even if you have independent observers, even if you have rational voters, you still have, a system that ends up not giving you much choice in the packages that you have, and then the group that you vote for is going to vote against your your interests, your desires anyway. I mean, I can't tell you how many times in this election and the past several, I've heard people say, how did we end up with these 2 candidates?

Derek: 16:56

Oh, well. Then they go all gung ho for the Republican or the Democrat, because that's the group that they have to be all in on in order to feel like they can, you know, put their best foot forward, get their interests best served, even though we know that their interests won't be served, by and large. So why do people think voting is so important then? Why is voting pushed by the government? Why is voting pushed by society?

Derek: 17:26

I think David Hume might have the best insight into this, and I'm gonna read a quote from him. Quote, nothing appears more surprising to those who consider human affairs with a philosophical eye than the easiness with which the many are governed by the few, and the implicit submission with which men resign their own sentiments and passions to those of their rulers. When we inquire by what means this wonder is affected, we shall find that as force is always on the side of the governed, the governors have nothing to support them but opinion. It is therefore on opinion only that government is founded, and this maxim extends to the most despotic and most military governments, as well as to the most free and most popular. The Soldan of Egypt or the emperor of Rome might drive his harmless subjects like brute beasts against their sentiments and inclination, but he must at least have led his Mamluks or Praetorian bands like men by their opinions, end quote.

Derek: 18:26

That is just absolutely so insightful. Right? What does what does Hume say? He says, you know, he a leader might go against the the masses' sentiments or their inclinations, which is a really big problem for him. Because the leader is 1 person or a small group of people, and the masses are many.

Derek: 18:53

The masses have force on their side, and revolution is, really easy for the masses to win. Right? So the leader has to, at the least, have led his Mamluks or Praetorian bands, his his army, the police state. He must at least have led the army and the police, gotten them to agree with him through their opinions. Now, of course, it's way better for the leader to have the masses' opinions on their side.

Derek: 19:25

Leaders want the masses to align, to agree, you know, for them to be happy. The whole bread and circuses idea. Right? If if you can keep the people fed, which if they're not, that's usually where a lot of revolutions start when they they run out of food. If you can keep the people fed, and you can keep the people distracted, happy, you know, give them pleasures, give them the the gladiatorial events, give them circuses, then their opinion will be on your side, or at least they won't have they'll have the inertia to stay put.

Derek: 19:59

They won't have the inertia to, the inertia of movement, right, of of progression, of revolution. And at worst, the leader will at least have most of the army on their side. So he's gotta have control of a lot of people's opinions, whether that's the army who has a lot of firepower, or whether that's the masses, which is ideal because they they even outnumber the army. The leader, all leaders, need the consent of those that they govern. So here's the thing, what Hume highlights is that the system goes on as it is, the system perpetuates only so long as there's a sufficient amount of buy in, whether that's buy in from a very strong, but relatively small group of people, like the Army and the Police State, or whether that's, buy in from the masses, which is ideal.

Derek: 20:57

So let's consider a a really interesting case study to just kind of highlight what seems to be going on here. There's a a really interesting quote from, I think his name is John Ehrlichman, but he was, an adviser or aid to Richard Nixon, during the the late sixties early seventies. And, here's some interesting, insight that he had, in in regard to his experience of of the war on drugs as it was pushed through while while he was, helping Nixon. He said, quote, you wanna know what this war on drugs was really all about? The Nixon campaign in 1968 and the Nixon White House after that had 2 enemies, the anti war left and black people.

Derek: 21:47

You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black. But by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs?

Derek: 22:12

Of course, we did. Now I want you to think about all of this, and I'm I'm gonna help you create a timeline here of some of these things that have happened. You have a lot of things start kicking off, it seems, in, like, 1954 with Brown versus the Board of Education. You've got a whole lot going on in regards to race, in regards to the, you know, McCarthy Red Scare, which is, you know, a whole lot of deflection away from from the ills of the United States, and and, you know, a whole lot of scapegoating and stuff. But you get this Brown versus the Board of Education.

Derek: 22:45

You get a lot of civil unrest. You get a lot of nonviolent action. And then in the the mid sixties, you get the Vietnam War that comes in that nobody wants, which happens conveniently as a distractor or whatever, in in the midst of the civil rights movement. And so you black, the black community ends up getting some legislation passed that, makes it harder to stop their votes. You get a whole bunch of assassinations, King, of course, but, you know, a lot of other people too.

Derek: 23:21

If you get a chance to watch the the, Chicago 7 movie, that's a really great movie, and you you get a lot of these, like, you know, the the Vietnam War going on, the the protests, the assassination of black leaders, other sorts of things. You can kind of get a a feel for this time period. But, you know, late sixties, 68, 69, Martin Luther King's assassinated, then you get, amendment, you get the civil rights legislation passed, and then the the Vietnam War is still going on. Then you get the, a lot of student protests. You get Kent State, where where some students are killed.

Derek: 24:02

So you've got all of this mass movement of people, civil rights movement, youth movement. Right? And and who composes those groups, by and large? You have black people, Civil Rights Movement, and you have, university students in the, you know, a lot of those in the the hippie movement and the anti war movement. There is just a ton of civil unrest at this point.

Derek: 24:28

And what happens? Right? The government's extremely scared. Like, the government is very nervous, because when people start, putting movement, when they start putting action to, their desires rather than just leaving that up to legislators, when when they feel like they don't have a voice and they take to the streets, that's really dangerous for a system. It's really dangerous for leaders.

Derek: 24:54

And so what happens? Well, you give the blacks a vote. They start to hush up a little bit. Right? You give the youth a vote.

Derek: 25:03

Take a look at, at the date of when the war on drugs begins and, and when amendment 26 is passed, which allows 18 year olds to vote instead of just 21. Right? Get because, usually, 21, you're just about to get out of college or maybe a senior. So you give 18 year olds the right to vote. And now, all of a sudden, the majority of people who are are on your campus, who are on university campuses, they feel like they have a voice.

Derek: 25:31

Oh, I have the right to vote? I don't need to take to the streets, because now I can go, and I can go to the ballot box, and I can cast my vote. I have a voice. I'm represented. I'm heard.

Derek: 25:45

So you take a look at those dates. The war on drugs starts July 17th I'm sorry. June 17th, 1971, exactly 2 weeks before, Amendment 26 passes, which happens on July 1, 1971. And, by and large, what happens to those movements? Because we're still 4 years away from the end of the Vietnam War.

Derek: 26:13

What happens to a lot of those movements? They begin to peter out. They begin to die down. When I was, at one of the end campaign rallies, I remember one of the, the younger speakers who who was recounting a story of when he was talking to his mom and and saying, mom, why did you guys stop the fight? You know, because his mom was a part of the Civil Rights Movement.

Derek: 26:33

Why did you stop fighting? And his mom said, we were just so tired. Of course, you know, I'm not gonna discount her personal experience, like, I'm sure she was tired, but if you would if you would continue to have, you would continue to have police violence, you'd continue to have, all kinds of injustices levied against the black community, still after the passing of that legislation and stuff. So why stop? I think, of course, there's tiredness is probably part of it, but I think another big part of it is you kind of felt like you you won a little bit.

Derek: 27:10

Right? Okay. They gave me the right to vote. Okay. They passed some legislation.

Derek: 27:14

And you kind of feel like you can take a break. You feel like you can rest, because you feel like you've been given a voice. And it's only 30, 40 years later, when the next generation comes up and they're like, wait a second. Like, this isn't right. Like, it's not fixed.

Derek: 27:28

The problem is still here. Where they're able to kind of see that, no, you didn't really get a voice. Right? It looked like you did a little bit, and sure, some things were improved, but, no, this this isn't right. The system is still doing what the system has has done all along, just in different forms.

Derek: 27:48

So as soon as people get the right to vote, as soon as, I'm sorry, as soon as people are are making enough noise, you've got a movement, a civil rights movement that's a decade plus long, you've got, the hippie movement, you've got the anti war movement, which, is lasting a significant a significant period of time with a lot of people getting involved, you have people who feel that they aren't represented, people who feel like their government is not hearing them, what happens? Right? The government realizes that they need the consent of the governed. And what does the vote do? The vote tells them, hey.

Derek: 28:23

You guys have power. We're gonna give you the power. And then people vote, and you're still in Vietnam. And people vote, and you you still have systems that are just saturated with racism. Right?

Derek: 28:37

You make people feel like things are different. You make people feel like they have a voice, like they have power. But you keep voting for the big banks. You keep voting, for big business. You keep voting the way that you've always voted.

Derek: 28:52

You just change the veneer a little bit. So that brings us to, you know, if I'm gonna summarize the points here. Right? The first major point of this episode is that, by and large, voting doesn't enact much power at all like people think it does. It really doesn't do that much.

Derek: 29:13

I mean, you think of of what the parties stand for. Okay. There's, you know, there's abortion, there's, you know, healthcare, there's there's a lot of different things that I'm not saying are insignificant, but that are are relatively small things in a certain sense. K? Republicans got 2 extra Supreme Court justices or or 3, however many extra they got.

Derek: 29:36

And, okay, they overturned Roe versus Wade. What happened? Some states, now that it's in state hands, some states have, liberalized abortion even more, and some states have cut it back. Does it really get rid of abortion? Does it really change things that much?

Derek: 29:53

Not really. And it's been, what, 60 years since Roe versus Wade, since all of this happened. Not much has hardly changed in 60 years of people casting a ballot, casting a vote once every 4 years. Not much has changed, and not much will change. Okay, if a democrat becomes president, maybe they're a little bit less hawkish.

Derek: 30:21

K. Maybe we we have slightly less troops overseas. Maybe they they cut the military a little bit. We're still supporting Saudi Arabia. We're still fostering, ethnic cleansing in Palestine and Yemen.

Derek: 30:34

Right? We're still supporting death. Like, doesn't really change. We whether Republican or Democrat gets in office, we're still going to have Big Brother. We're gonna have a a police state.

Derek: 30:48

We we have I don't know the statistics off the top of my head at the moment, but I think per capita, or maybe even quantitatively, I I don't know, but we have, like, the largest or almost the largest prison population on the planet, like, of all countries. We have in insane sorts of laws. We have extreme amounts of surveillance that we're not doing what China does with it with the social system and stuff, but it doesn't matter what party you get in there, they're gonna raise the debt significantly, or not really do anything to to resolve the debt. Like, really really big things, not gonna change. Right?

Derek: 31:32

Most of it is veneer. And what voting does is one of the things that it does is it's going to prevent you from seeing your true state of powerlessness, because you think that voting is power, you think that voting does something, it doesn't matter who you vote for. They're gonna bail out the banks the next financial crisis. It just doesn't matter. So that's number 1.

Derek: 31:58

Number 2. The other big thing that voting does is it's it's essentially like a gang initiation. It's, it's kind of like, like the buyer's remorse sort of thing. I see I see this in my kids a bunch of times. They they buy a toy, and they think it's going to make them really happy, and they get it, and they open up the box, and it's not exactly as it was advertised, and, it's it breaks a little bit more easily than they thought it would, and it's not as cool as they thought it would be.

Derek: 32:29

They get tired of it faster, but because they spent their money on it, like, they they have to like it. In a gang initiation, right, it it's kind of the same thing, like, you you it doesn't matter, what happens. Like, you you have to be for your gang, on pain of death sometimes, but also just, like, that's your group. It doesn't matter. Like, you've got to defend them.

Derek: 32:52

So when I voted for Bush 2, then when he went to war, that war was my war. I voted for him. And I had to justify that war. I had to be all for it. I had to defend him, and I, whether it was conscious or not, I had to come up with reasons why it was good that we went to war.

Derek: 33:15

Right? Because you're you're dedicated to your party, you're in a gang, you are going to defend that gang. And you're gonna defend them even against things that are relatively indefensible. I saw this so much so much with, you know, the first election with Donald Trump. My Christian community, you had people like, I can't think of his name now.

Derek: 33:44

Geisler? Maybe it was Geisler? No. Gruden. It was Wayne Gruden.

Derek: 33:50

So, like, Wayne Gruden, I think there were also other people, I'm not not gonna remember all the names, but you had people in the Christian community, you had people in the, Republican community who, were just so adamantly opposed to Donald Trump. And I think JD Vance, was actually one of those too. Like, there are clips of him, saying, like, how terrible Trump is and, like, how he would never vote for him. But you can find all of these people, Christians, Republicans, who are so against Trump, and just could not, square him with with ethics and morality. And they they did a 180.

Derek: 34:25

Now for some of the Republican guys, it was, as soon as they were offered power, they were like, oh, you know what? Yeah. If I have a cabinet seat, no. You're not so bad. I I take back what I said, or just ignore that I ever said that stuff anyway.

Derek: 34:39

Just kinda let it get buried. For a lot of Christian people, I kind of respected initially, like, okay, you're holding your nose when you vote. You you recognize that Trump is it's really sad that, he's your candidate, but okay. You you have all these policies you think are important. I disagree, but I can respect that.

Derek: 35:00

Well, within 6 months, they are adamantly defending Trump. He says, you know, talking about grabbing a woman by the private parts, and they're, like, well, you know, it's the guys our guys and locker room talk, while simultaneously, all of these sex scandals are coming out, and these these just scandals of power. And you're, like, oh, man. This is this is what it's all about, isn't it? It's all about power.

Derek: 35:29

Like, your guys in, and not even though you might not have wanted him initially, because that's your guy, you're in the gang. Right? You can't get out. And so what do you do when you're in a gang? You justify what they do, justify everything they do, you praise everything that's done, and you just go along with it.

Derek: 35:49

You become morally complicit with it. So when it comes time to vote, most people want you to vote. They might not really understand why they want you to vote, but they want you to vote because they want you to be part of the gang, their gang. And once you're in, it's really hard to get out. And, also, on a on a larger scale, the government, the people in power, they want you to feel like you have power.

Derek: 36:15

They don't want you to take action. They don't want you to go to the streets where where real things are done, where real movement happens. They want you to go to the ballot box. Get out on the street. Get out in your car.

Derek: 36:29

Go drive to do something every 4 years. Don't go to the streets, whatever you do. Now for those of you who haven't listened to all of the other seasons that I have, or even all of the other episodes in this, in this podcast, in this season, like, this wouldn't be my main argument against voting. K? This is just kind of icing on the cake.

Derek: 36:54

I I care about more foundational issues. Morality first, and then you can get into some of the other philosophical issues. And here, we're just at the functional level of, like, what what is what is this actually doing? So I would really encourage you to, listen to some of the other seasons. I've got season 2 on consequentialism, which is going to tell you more about the, you know, the ends justifying the means and and kind of get at the heart of that aspect.

Derek: 37:22

I'd recommend listening, especially to my season on nonviolence. I think it's season 7, on Nonviolent Action, which is going to tell you, like, real examples, real world examples of how does Nonviolent Action work, and why does going to the streets work? Like, what is it that that people are scared of, that the government is scared of? And and how would you even begin to think about moving to the streets? You can talk go to season 9, which is on government, and I'm gonna I explore in that season a whole lot of ideas about, like, what is it that the government actually does?

Derek: 38:00

When you vote, like, what does what does that all include? Like, what are you giving the government power to do? What is our government's history? What are they going to do? What can I trust, based on history, that the government is going to do with the power that I I divest in it?

Derek: 38:16

Like, how does that all work? And when you start to see what government truly is, it should make you really averse to giving anybody, particularly at the federal level, giving anybody power. Your power, your consent, your complicity. And then season 11, my my favorite season, longest season, really digs into not just government, but, propaganda at all levels. Whether that's, from the small scale domestic abuser, medical community, you know, business community, government, everything.

Derek: 38:50

But, like, understand, that is especially going to give you an understanding for how how is consent garnered from people. Like, how can people impact your will? How can they impact your desires, and kind of shape what you do and what you think? Because, man, people are propagandized to vote across the world, but especially in the United States. They are just, like, they they elevate voting to, like, mythical status of of these things that it's going to obtain, and the the great evils that are gonna befall if they don't vote a particular way, as opposed to seeing the system doing what the system does, and just giving you the illusion of choice.

Derek: 39:36

I actually have a a great example of this, when I was a teacher, so one of my favorite systems that I like to impose was at the beginning of the year, I'd have all of my students write down a bunch of information on the card. You know, their name, their favorite candy, so, like, on their birthdays, sometimes I would give them candy, whatever, like, a bunch of different information. And, then I'd collect them, and all year long, I would use them for my different classes, to help answer questions. And so we we would do what we call Think Pair Share. And so I'd I'd teach for a little bit, talk for a little bit, have them read for a little bit, whatever, and then I'd say, alright guys, it's time to Think Pair Share.

Derek: 40:21

And they'd get together, they'd talk with each other, and they knew that after thinking and pairing and sharing, I was going to draw from those note cards, and I was going to draw a name. And whatever name came out, I would call on, and they would give me their answer. And the reason we did the Think Pair Share was because if they got together and talked about it, then they didn't they had time to process it. I didn't put them on the spot, and they could give me their answer or or, you know, somebody from their group's answer. So that way, like, a kid who doesn't get it, they're able to kind of glean information off of their their partners, and they're kind of motivated too because they know their name might get pulled, and then they're able to answer if I I draw their name.

Derek: 41:03

Well, here's the thing, I had the note cards, I was the one who read the note cards. Quite often, there were certain people who I wanted to glean information off of. I was like, does, you know, does Tommy really know, this this concept? Or, if I was walking around and listening to certain groups, I'm like, oh, that was a that was an answer I I want the class to hear. I'm gonna I'm gonna make sure that this person gets called.

Derek: 41:30

And so yeah. Sure. I would pull a note card, and it might have said, Jane, but, nope. I I called Tommy. Pulled the note card, Tommy.

Derek: 41:41

And Tommy had no idea. Right? I I pulled Jane's card, but I called Tommy. That's a whole lot like what this voting is. You go to a lever well, I guess it's it's probably not a lever anymore.

Derek: 41:55

I haven't been I haven't voted for a long time. But you go to the ballot box, whatever it is. You mark a box, you punch a hole, you pull a lever, however your system works, and you're, like, I'm gonna get this this package of of goods. You know? They're gonna be fiscally responsible.

Derek: 42:15

They're not gonna go into war. They're whatever the issue is. Right? And, and what you end up getting is often very, very different than what you end up going for. But just like in my classroom, when I called on Tommy, even though Tommy's name wasn't on the card, he felt like it was fair.

Derek: 42:35

Hey. He just happened to pull my name out of the cards, like, you know, the the system works. And that's what voters think. Even though, people have been going to the polls for centuries, and look where we are now, And look at all the the things, that our country has done, the the way that the system is corrupt, everything. People think that, well, the system is working.

Derek: 43:04

Oh, I have a voice. No. You don't. No. You don't.

Derek: 43:09

And as soon as people realize that and start to take to the streets, start to take action, start to be fed up, start to, refuse complicity, start to abstain, start to pull back from the system, when the government begins to lose the consent of the governed, then you're gonna see the true nature of the system. The country will the the leaders will lead the Mamalukes or, I guess, the seals or whoever, the army against its own people, which, I mean, in a lot of ways, it already does with our, with our information system as, you know, Snowden has revealed. I mean, as it all goes all the way back to COINTELPRO and and the stuff that they were doing in the sixties and and, and on, with People's Mail, with, you know, with putting informants into various groups. Like, it's been going on for a while. But you're gonna see that when people start to realize this stuff, and when the government realizes that they're losing a grip on the people, there's gonna be backlash.

Derek: 44:18

And that backlash is either going to come first, like they tried to do in this in 71. Right? Make people think that they have a voice. Right? Extend the vote to 16 year olds maybe, or however else they're going to try to, you know, use their La Jer domain to to make you feel like, you have power when you really don't.

Derek: 44:40

If that doesn't work, then you're gonna you're gonna see, the the police state that we have, and have had. You can go back to the sixties and see some of the different policing actions. Not just Kent State, I mean, like, much larger scale. I think the, the Chicago 7 was about the, Democratic National Convention, and and what went on there. But it's pretty insane stuff.

Derek: 45:04

But we don't time have time for a history lesson here. You'll have to go back and listen to my other seasons, and also extend your reading, which I'd be happy to to make some recommendations for you if you want. That's all for now. So peace, and because I'm a pacifist, when I say it, I mean it. This podcast is a part of the Kingdom Outpost Network.

Derek: 45:44

Please check out the links below to find other great podcasts and content related to nonviolence and Kingdom Living.